I’m re-posting this article that I originally posted in a forum. Please note that I have nothing against LDS members and think highly of them in the areas of family support and membership care. Some Churches would do well by following from their examples especially in the areas of local ministry. Some facets of their religion I might agree with but other areas I find fault. Unfortunately all religion is tainted by the acts of men.

The subject of the Trinity is of great importance to the foundation of mainstream Christian beliefs and it is what separates Christianity from other so called cults. In this short essay, I’m not choosing sides nor stating that their beliefs are wrong. But for Protestants, I believe the Trinity provides a great topic to discuss with Mormons that helps to exposes some of their church issues. Mormon believe that the Father and the Son are two separate gods and are two completely separate beings, as given through a vision of their founder Joseph Smith. They also believe that by being a good Mormon, they too can also become a god; this is obviously a separate discussion.

First one must remember that Mormons, who prefer to be called Latter Day Saints (LDS), believe that the Bible has been corrupted by the early Church. Because of this they place more significance on the book of Mormon. I will admit that there is some merit to this accusation as the major passage which support the Trinity in the New Testament. 1 John 5:7-8 is known to be a possible forgery as it only appears in the Latin Vulgate and a few very late Greek manuscripts. Not surprisingly their own book of Mormon, which was heavily influence by the Bible, conflicts with their current beliefs. The book of Mormon actually has more “trinitarian like” language that the Bible itself. Because of this, when talking about the Trinity I believe it is helpful to first start out with their own book of Mormon and then move to the Bible and show how they both say the same thing.

I personally believe that if one studies the book of Mormon and what it says about God while using the Bible as a foundation it’s obvious to see that the book of Mormon supports the Trinity. When it references the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being one, LDS will say that they are one in purpose. But one must remember the historical context in which the book was written and the cultural upbringing of the transcriber which was protestantism. It a logical conclusion that the three being one would be the familiar Trinity that Joseph Smith would have known as a child and generally accepted by the multitude at the time.

It becomes really interesting to teach the Trinity from the book of Mormon to show how distorted their church beliefs have become. Through my findings I’ve seen that many LDS members know very little about what their church actually believes. It isn’t until their lives become so engrained within the church that the information becomes known, but by then to leave the church would be life shattering with the fears of being excommunicated. I personally believe that everyone should challenge their faith and beliefs; by doing so you will either strengthen your faith with answers or come to a new conclusions.

The following is all from the book of Mormon with one verse from the D&C. In my discussions with members of the LDS, they have often reference the word ‘one’ to mean one in purpose.

The source for the book of Mormon: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

Verses to Argue in the book of Mormon & the Doctrine of Covenants supporting the Trinity (Do not confuse these with the Bible):

Alma 11:26-29 & 38-39

26 And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God?

27 And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.

28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?

29 And he answered, No.

…

38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal

Father?

39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of

heaven and of earth, and ball things which in them are; he is the

beginning and the end, the first and the last;

3 Nephi 11:24-27 & 36

24 And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them

by name, saying:

25 Having aauthority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name

of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

26 And then shall ye aimmerse them in the water, and come forth again

out of the water.

27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold,

verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost

are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father

and I are one.

(Mormon will often argue that they mean one in purpose, but with the

Bible we understand the truth)

36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will

bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and

the Holy Ghost are one.

Alma 11: 44

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both

bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous;

and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but

every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in

the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ

the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal

God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or

whether they be evil.

3 Ne. 28: 10

10 And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit

down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as

the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am,

and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

Morm. 7: 7

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he

that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given

unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing

ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the

Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of

happiness which hath no end.

D&C 20: 28

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal,

without end. Amen.

Ether 3:14

14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to

redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the

Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they

who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my

daughters.

Please note although we have posted this text, our website does NOT support the either the book of Mormon or the Doctrine of Covenants. Yet we do feel that they can be useful tools when trying to reach a Mormon. Please remember that challenging ones faith is not for the faint of heart, you must truly know your beliefs and have a solid foundation. My personal experience in 1998 after debating the Mormon beliefs tested my own beliefs and left me spiritually distraught for quite some time. To see how easily a group of people can become so easily brain washed into believing a religion can cause one to question one’s own faith and beliefs if a strong foundation is not set. Before questioning others, first question yourself.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

Attending Church one eventually hears the topic of sin. Sin is usually attributed to various things such as lying, greed, stealing, killing, etc; yet much like a doctor’s office they typically only provide solutions to fix the symptoms never really taking care of the root problem. So we ask for God’s forgiveness and close our eyes to the root problem. With this solution we seem good for the time being, but soon slip back into life sin. Unfortunately, until the root problem is understood the situation will not get better and our lives will continue to be in a repeating pattern.

I’ve heard that traveling the world one can see a difference between affluent and poor people. The poor people always seem to be smiling and content with what little they have appreciating the simple things in life. There is little to worry about when one has nothing. Yet, affluent people on the other hand are often concerned and worried about what the future will bring. With wealth brings responsibility and the fear of loss. In one of the richest nations, the United States, people are in a continual state of consumption and personal achievement; never having enough. This life style can often breed greed, lying, cheating, stealing, envy, lust along with many other sinful ways. The Bible gives us guidance on how we should live. If we look carefully enough, we’ll even find the root problem to all sins which will aid us in living Christ like.

A rich man once approached Jesus and asked how he might obtain eternal life. Jesus told him to obey the Ten Commandments. Having kept all of the commandments the man wondered what he still lacked. Jesus told him that in order to be perfect the man would have to sell his possessions and give to the poor; after that he could follow Christ. When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he was very wealth. Jesus then said, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 19:16-24, NIV). This wasn’t necessarily about the money; it was more about living a selfless life.

God’s ways are higher than mankind’s. God created this world not for his benefit, but for our benefit; God’s ways are selfless in nature. When Adam was created he was put on Earth to maintain it and to be its keeper. When Eve was put on this Earth, it was to help Adam and to be his partner. We were created with the original intent of living selfless lives. But then our human nature took effect, Adam and Eve wanted to acquire knowledge and be like gods thus eating the fruit. Many people would say that the sin was disobeying God and not following God’s orders. Yet if we look at the situation carefully the reason for the disobedience was the pursuit of personal gain, a self centered act thus detaching us from God’s intent and purpose. God’s purpose for us is to live a life of selflessness. Being self-centered is the root of all sins.

Let’s handle the first objection, what if someone commits a selfless sin such as killing on someone else’s behalf? I believe that God would see the overall good in matter of a selfless act. For example, Moses killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew. Obviously Moses was forgiven and later used by God. Yet, it’s hard to imagine anyone killing anybody without some motive. Jesus obviously doesn’t condone killing while giving a selfless examples of turning the other cheek, loving your enemies, and praying for those that persecute you.

Jesus had been questioned in regards to which of the commandments was the greatest. Jesus first answered, “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, and soul and next love your neighbor as yourself.“(Matthew 22:39, NIV). The only way this is possible is to live a life of selflessness. Jesus in his very nature was the perfect example of one who lived selfless life style; an example that we should all strive to follow. Note Romans 8:5, “Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.” (NIV) “Put to death whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.” (Colossians 3:5, NIV).

In short our sinful natures are a result of trying to fulfill our natural desires. We’ve heard of such things as the “Me generation,” and the pursuit of Happiness which is often equated to wealth and achievement. Children often start life care free and charitable but quickly become accustomed to our self-seeking life styles. The root of the problem is that we are naturally self-centered and without taking a conscious step into being selfless, society will continue living a downward spiral driven on ever expanding desires with a thirst that will never be quenched as we tear at one another to get ahead.

God intended us to be selfless, mankind chose to be selfish. Our pride and self consuming nature is the root of all sin.

It not that I fear vaccines, only those who are making the vaccines.

It must be noted that the Government does not have a clean record when it comes to faulty vaccines and often hides the negative impacts that have resulted. The weakened virus is typically the least of our worries in these shots versus the added chemical which are present. Who really wants a Mercury injected via a flu shot? For kids there are plenty of studies that show the adverse affects that can result. In my opinion mandating any shot is a violation against ones liberties. And if one attempts to keep their child at home in order to avoid getting the shot, law enforcement can be used along with Child Protection Services (CPS) to potentially take the kids away. Home school will soon be the only option. Our system is quickly removing our parental right to raise our children, and it doesn’t stop there…

More are forgoing vaccines for kids

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So where exactly was God when the Neumann’s gave up prayers for their daughter? Could God be absent? Jesus’ followers did see him leave ascending into the sky and were told that he’d return in the same way. Was this case a slap in the face to a God who is suppose to be omnipotent? If God knew that it would give him bad Public Relations (PR) and help the Atheist point of view, you’d think that he would have done a slight miracle of some kind. Unlike Job in the Bible these people has signs and could have prevented the death of their daughter.

“An expert on religion says the Neumanns may have become too focused on one way of thinking in their religious beliefs, and that may have ultimately contributed to their daughter’s death.”

ARTICLE: Expert On Religion Says Neumanns May Be Too Focused In Their Religious Thinking 

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Question: What do you think was the message of Christ?
Most would probably said that Christ came as a living sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. But now look at what Jesus said his message was…

Luke 4:43 “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other cities also; for I was sent for this purpose.”

Luke 8:1 “¹After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God.”

Luke 9:11 “He welcomed them and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed healing.”

Mark 1:15 ”The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news.”

Matthew 24:14 “And this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations.”

Matthew 6:9-10 “This then is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.’”

Jesus’ message and Good News was about the coming of God’s kingdom through Jesus Christ.

 Man changed his message and I was told that I was wrong for agreeing with Jesus.

Omnipotent (Jer. 32:17,27), Omnipresent (Psalm 119:7-12), Omniscient (1 John 3:20)

Show me how Jesus is Omnipotent. How can this be possible when scripture clearly shows that he is in the flesh, yet has ascended into heaven and will return the same way he left? I guess it possible that the spirit of Jesus is with us, but then what about his physical body that is to return. If Jesus is here why does he let his people suffer? What if scripture is true and Christ is gone until his return as foretold in Revelations. The problem is that if Jesus isn’t omnipotent as the Bible shows, then the Trinity doesn’t hold up.

Acts 1:11  “They said, “Men of Galilee, why are you standing here looking into the sky? Jesus, whom you saw taken up from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you saw him go.”